Life Profits

04 Life Profits - Shannon Sneed

Geoff Roberts: [00:00:00] What's up, everybody. I'm Jeff Roberts, and this is the Life Profits Podcast, where we celebrate entrepreneurs that are using their businesses to build interesting and enriched lives. Last week, we talked to software entrepreneur, Mac Marteen, about his experience. Slow matting across Europe with his family over the last two years.
After talking to Mac, he was like, you know what, Jeff, you have to talk to my wife, Shannon. She loves this topic. You should have her on the show next. So that's our guest this week, Shannon Sneed. If you're a parent that's been apprehensive about traveling with your family or doing something similar to what Mac has done, this is the episode for you.
I don't know that there's anyone who can make a more compelling case for seizing the day and living for now than Shannon. I hope you enjoy this episode. All right, everybody, today I am joined by Shannon Sneed, who if you watched our last episode with Mac Marteen is actually Mac's wife. So after we chatted [00:01:00] last week, Mac said, You know what?
I've told you my side of the story. Uh, you should talk to my wife, Shannon. She's really passionate about this topic and how their lives have been impacted by slow matting over the last two years. So Shannon, first of all, thank you so much for, for being here and chatting with me.
Shannon Sneed: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat about my favorite topic.
Geoff Roberts: Awesome. So from the outside looking in, you and Mac have what I would call the indie hacker's dream. Uh, Mac has, you know, had a successful software startup. Um, he's at a point now where he's got, and you obviously do too, have location freedom. Um, you're able to work on your own projects, sort of at your own pace.
And you've used that to live a somewhat nomadic lifestyle over the last two years. That is not unique these days. There's tons of people doing this nomad stuff. But what is unique is that you are doing it with your family in tow. So that's really what I want to dig into, uh, with you today. Um, [00:02:00] and before we, we get into how this all came to be, what is your work situation yourself?
Do you work full time, part time, are you a full time mom? Um, what's that look like?
Shannon Sneed: Yeah, I work part time, so I'm a freelancer, um, I'm a writer, so what I have done in my career. Up until the point where we, um, went overseas was, um, I was working for big companies as part of their, um, marketing and communications departments as a writer.
And so I essentially just turned that into a freelance gig basically. And I've got four, I think maybe four clients now all based in the U S, but I do what I do anyway, just as a freelancer, as an independent contractor, it's not full time. So I wouldn't say I've made money here. I certainly spent more than I made and, you know, depleted some of my savings.
But I think that's kind of what, I mean, and we can talk about more of this, but I think that's kind of what it's there for. I don't know what else I would ever spend my savings [00:03:00] on, but this dream. So that doesn't, that hasn't felt, uncomfortable or painful. Um, that's just felt like the reality. But yeah, I've been working here.
Um, the work ebbs and flows. Some weeks I have a lot of free time. Sometimes some other weeks I'm, you know, in my office from, you know, nine to five or close to it. So, just depends on client deliverables and what they need from me. But, The great thing about this role, and you know, one of the lucky things we've had going for us all along, is that we both have jobs that are truly remote.
They're just, it's, we're information and tech workers. So that's just a computer, um, and a, and an internet connection. So, It's been really fortunate that that piece of what, you know, what made this successful for us is, um, certainly luck that we both have jobs that, that, that allow that. So
Geoff Roberts: sure. And was that a deliberate change before you took off to live overseas?
Were you working, uh, more, [00:04:00] more in office or full time and you said, okay, I need to go freelance in order to enable this.
Shannon Sneed: Yeah, I think I was sort of on the track to doing this for a while before I actually.
Geoff Roberts: Okay, I
Shannon Sneed: sort of engineered my way toward it. Um, the the work I had before leaving was full time, but it was still remote and it was a long term contract so There were it didn't feel like I was sort of entrenched in An organizational culture where it felt hard to get out of it.
It, it, once, you know, I've been doing, I've been working remotely for 10 years now. So seeing both ways and how different, how different it feels to quit a job that you go to go on site for every single day. That's just a totally different feeling. I know because it's hard, it's harder to do it. But as a remote worker for so long, it's a little easier to say, you know what, I'm going to wrap this job up and I'm going to do it this other way.
It felt [00:05:00] less emotionally fraught to make that decision. I think, you know, honestly, once we made the choice to do this, I thought of the things that would be hard and I said, well, I'm going to do them anyway. I'm going to quit the job and I'm going to. Try and freelance. And I'm going to start making those inroads, uh, so that I can make some money while I'm overseas.
And I just said, that's the, the ultimate goal is to get there. And so I'm willing to do what the uncomfortable stuff to do to make that happen and that, you know, one of that is one of those things was saying goodbye to a salaried, uh, Benefits existence for a little while. So, yeah.
Geoff Roberts: Well, kudos to you for rocking the boat.
That's that's awesome.
Shannon Sneed: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's not always easy. Um, in, in American work culture, I think that's really hard for people who have worked full time their whole lives to make that switch, but when you have your eyes on something bigger and more fun and [00:06:00] exciting, and you feel like your life isn't going to feel right without it, then you do what you have to do.
So,
Geoff Roberts: amen. Awesome. Uh, what, what type of writing do you, do you actually do? Um, tell me a little bit about your, your work itself.
Shannon Sneed: Yeah. So the majority of my, I'm a journalism major. I won't, you know, go too far back, but I, I, I did. Train as a journalist. So my my early career was in journalism, and it was right around when the dot com boom was really in full swing.
So I went into editorial content for Webster dot coms in San Francisco back in the day, and then that kind of moved me into corporate communications eventually. And I started doing employee communications for big companies like the gap and Nike and Big retail companies. So over the years, it's really been a lot of employee communications writing.
And then as a freelancer, I do more marketing communications. So I do, um, brand journalism. I [00:07:00] do website copy. I do blog posts for leaders. Uh, I do, um, e commerce copywriting for, um, Adidas, funnily enough. So I know a lot about shoes at this point after Nike and Adidas, but so all over the map in terms of the industries, but generally it's usually employee communications, PR communications, like press releases, and then marketing copy, uh, copywriting for, um, marketing teams.
So
Geoff Roberts: it's funny. I have a. Somewhat similar story. I was a writing major in school myself. Um, I had no interest in software or startups or anything like that. Um, but I got out of college in 2008 when the economy was tanking and a software startup was who offered me a job. And it was a bunch of engineers who wanted to write code and said, we don't know how to communicate with the, you know, the world at large, go do that for us.
And here I am, uh, whatever it is, 15 years later, I'm still [00:08:00] working in software startups. So.
Shannon Sneed: Yeah, it's you, you go where the jobs are. I mean, that's for me as a, as someone who wanted to write professionally, the job, that's where the jobs were, the jobs were not in newspapers. I'll tell you that much. So, and it's really, it opened up a whole other world of professional writing.
opportunities that I don't think I would have really thought through as a journalism kid. So.
Geoff Roberts: All right. So take me back. Um, it's been a couple of years now. Um, so for people who did not listen to the last episode, Mac and Shannon have been slow matting with their family for the last two years, uh, primarily in Croatia and Valencia, Spain, but they've traveled all over before, before.
Those two years prior when you were making the decision to actually do this and uproot your family and prioritize this aspect of your life. Bring me into your headspace. Where did, where did this come from, from, from your perspective? Like when was this first raised? What was the [00:09:00] initial discussion like?
And, um, ultimately like what, what pushed you out the door?
Shannon Sneed: Yeah. Yeah. So for me, this is lifelong. This isn't like, this wasn't something that just sort of bubbled up. Um, I was one of those kids in school who was extremely fluent with languages. So I learned French starting when I was, you know, 12 and I studied that all the way through college and then went, studied abroad in France and then minored in French.
And so I had, I always had this passion for other cultures and other languages, um, and an interest in travel. But I didn't really get to do much of it as a kid. I mean, we were just a middle class family. We didn't go overseas. That wasn't a thing you did. Um,
Geoff Roberts: yeah,
Shannon Sneed: but I dreamed about it. And I, I, that the study abroad experience was sort of my first foray into that world.
And I loved it. And then in my early twenties, I moved. I did something similar on a smaller scale, which is that I quit my dot com [00:10:00] job and went to Prague,
Geoff & Shannon: uh,
Shannon Sneed: by myself and, uh, got an E at ESL teaching certificate. So I started teaching English there and then quickly got a job offer at a local newspaper in Prague and ended up working at the news newspaper, their English language.
So this was back in the early two thousands and I did that for a couple of years, so, and then came back and. You know, got back into regular American life until further notice with some trips interspersed between, you know, between then and now. So this was always part of, this has always been sort of core to who I am, an interest in doing these things, a belief on some level that we would take our family overseas.
and more than for just a trip. That was always something that I, I felt like needed to happen in our lives or, or at least dreamed that that would be a reality for us at some point because I, I believe so strongly in exposing kids to [00:11:00] other cultures. I think, That's fundamental to being a curious person in the world and a person who has empathy and, and, and consideration for other people.
Nothing does that for you like travel. So for me, that was always something I dreamed about. Mac, luckily I married someone who has similar sensibilities around travel and a similar approach to travel, which is, you know, we're not trying to conquer every single tourist site. We just want to go and be somewhere.
And I think, so there was that. There's some, some, some sort of personal background that kind of led to it. But then really it was a lot about the situation we had just come out of. So our kids had just, we were emerging from the pandemic. Had gone through, you know, a year and a half of our kids being home in the house.
We live in Portland, Oregon. They were really strict about school openings. So they were not in a school. They were not in a physical school for over a year. So [00:12:00] our world had gotten very small. Necessarily as so many other people's did and yeah, I know I'm not alone with Um, and then I was, you know, feeling this sense of claustrophobia during that time with your kids in the house.
And we had found ourselves in a, in a position where Mac had just sold his, his app. Um, so he had gotten some money from that. I mean, not, you know, he wasn't going to be Elon Musk, but he had made, made enough money that he could, he could, he had the ability to sort of consider it. And Portland was going through a really rough time.
Um, yeah. Portland was dragging us down. We were just feeling so sick of Portland and its problems and feeling sort of exasperated by it all. And so there was sort of this confluence of a lot of different things. Together. And it was one night in August, 2021. And I was reading the news and it said Croatia has introduced its new digital nomad visa.
Geoff Roberts: I
Shannon Sneed: knew what I knew about digital nomad visas. I knew that [00:13:00] about that in general, but for whatever reason, in that moment, It sort of all clicked and I turned to Mac and I said, Croatia has a digital nomad visa, let's move, let's go. And he said, okay. And that was as much as a discussion we had, it was no, well, why Croatia?
I mean, why, why not Croatia? I knew the area I've been to the Balkans. I'd lived into the Czech Republic. So I knew some central European. You know, I had a general sense of that area, not, not specifically Croatia, but why not? I don't want to belabor this. It doesn't, it almost on some level doesn't even matter.
Let's just pick it with the pin down and plan accordingly. And from that point, it was all systems go.
Geoff Roberts: Uh, a phrase that Mack said over and over in his episode was we just didn't overthink it. We just sort of chose somewhere and we went and I admire you guys for that. Um, I'll tell you a little bit about my.
Wife and [00:14:00] I's and family's travels in a minute, but, um, we have not done that to the extent that you do. We, we more like meticulously plan where we're going and really research all these destinations and whatnot. And, um, part of that comes from self interest and I enjoy doing that and whatnot, but to your point, I can see having done it, it really doesn't.
It's about going somewhere, being somewhere different, experiencing a different culture. Um, and I think it's great that you've, um, sort of flown by the seat of your pants so much. Um, that's, that's cool.
Shannon Sneed: I will say, I will say there's, there's certain things that do matter. I mean, it doesn't, it's not like you can just pick it, pick it anywhere.
I, there was things that sort of, I already knew about Croatia, so it was, we wanted to do Europe. I think that was pretty, that felt like the right, right. jump for us with kids because we knew we would have infrastructure. We would have, um, educational facilities. We'd have healthcare if we needed it. We'd have [00:15:00] access to transportation.
So there were some things that kind of automatically filled in some requirements. But in terms of. When I say it doesn't matter, it's like, look at the digital nomad visas that are available in countries that just meet all the requirements I just listed. And from there, it doesn't really matter. Then it's kind of like, okay, well then, you know, you've got the basics covered.
You won't have to worry about some of this stuff because you know that, that Croatia is going to have these things. And so, you know, language, we didn't, we don't speak Croatian who does 4 million people, 6 million people in the world speak Croatian and that's it.
Geoff Roberts: Yep.
Shannon Sneed: No. It wasn't like, Oh, well, we've got to go somewhere where, you know, we can, it, we'll figure that out.
That, that part is, doesn't ever concern me. Um, and so, yeah, I just knew that it would be a zero regret move. There would be no part of me that would be like, I wish we'd chosen somewhere else. I'd just say, well, this is what we're doing. We're here. We're going to [00:16:00] have some lessons. Some of it's going to be, most of it's going to be great.
Some of it might be. I don't know, uncomfortable or maybe not what we expected, but I'm not going to regret it. So it, there's no need to belabor it. You know, once you figured some of the, some of that out, you know,
Geoff Roberts: so my, my family, um, has done something similar, but at a different cadence. Um, Basically every two years, we spend six months abroad and then we come back to San Diego for 18 months and then we do six months abroad again.
And we've done that four times now. So we've done that consistently over the last eight years. The other difference is we've done it with very small kids. Um, my, my kids are four now, so they've. They're about to go on their third of these trips, but we did this from almost when they were infants up until they're four years old, that's very different from you in the sense of you had older kids, I think they were eight and eight and 10 or when you, when you left.
So, In [00:17:00] our case, it was just, hey, throw the babies, you know, on the airplane and here we go. There's no discussion. In your case, um, take me through the initial conversation with your, with your kids, explaining that this was something you wanted to do. And how did they react being at an age where I'm sure they had friends and school interests and a life of their own?
Shannon Sneed: Yeah. I mean, you know, eight and 10, I think they don't quite, They, things are still fairly theoretical to them, you know, like we're going to move to Croatia. I don't know that that really registers, um, in the same way that it would for an adult or, or even for a teenager. I think that had they been older.
You know, in their teens, I think that would have been a different conversation and harder sell. But we just said, Hey, you know, we're gonna, we're going to move to this really beautiful country. Look at these pictures. I think that helped, you know, I mean, Croatia does not lack for beauty. So we talked about the beautiful [00:18:00] Adriatic sea, not that we were going to live on the coast, but we're going to get to see all these great things.
And, you know, friends and family will try to come visit us. You know, I think that was part of it, sort of helping them understand that we weren't. going to the moon. I mean, we're just going to be a flight away.
Geoff Roberts: Yep.
Shannon Sneed: And we'll just have an adventure. And I think in some ways, even though they were young, I think they too were maybe feeling a little bit ready to do something different after the tedium of the pandemic.
grinding sense of stress looming over us all the time, you know, around
Geoff Roberts: not
Shannon Sneed: only the pandemic, but just general American life is just very, very scheduled and stressful. It just is. And I think I would like to think that they, they also, you know, we're kind of keen to try, try something different and go on a big airplane with, with, Flat screen TVs on the back of the seats, you know, like it's the simple [00:19:00] things, right?
I mean, they may not really understand what this cathedral means and where, why that is cool, but they, they're going to like things like the gelato stands on every corner and the amazing swimming at the beaches and all those things. So they just, they, you know, they're still kids. And then the other thing I would say is like, at the end of the day, you're in charge, you're the parent.
You're going to make this decision. Even if they'd pushed back, even if they'd said, no, I don't, we would've done it.
Geoff Roberts: Okay.
Shannon Sneed: You know, we're, we get to make those decisions for, you know, a few more years and then they can make their own decisions. But until then, it is our job as parents to make the best decisions that we think will be beneficial for the family.
Sure. For them and for us.
Geoff Roberts: Yep.
Shannon Sneed: And that was, uh, I don't, I know you're going to leave your friends. I know you're going to be homesick. I know you're going to be frustrated that you don't understand the [00:20:00] signs in the stores that they're in a weird language. That's okay. It's good for you. It's okay to be frustrated.
Geoff Roberts: Yeah. It's
Shannon Sneed: okay to feel homesick. It's, in fact, it's useful because it teaches you what you value and who you value. And it also, you learn that it kind of ebbs and flows and you'll feel some, some days you'll feel homesick and some days you'll be all right. So these were all things that I felt were important lessons anyway.
And I think if you're going to do this with kids. When they're old enough to kind of have an opinion and say what they want to do and not do, you can't let that necessarily stop you either way. Or, or, you know, you have to make the decision. You have to trust that you're making a good decision for them, that they're going to benefit long term.
And they, and they, I think they will. I hope.
Geoff Roberts: Totally. I, I love your point too, about. You know, the airplane seat TVs might be exciting to them, but the cathedral might not. That is absolutely something I have experienced, particularly traveling with [00:21:00] kids as young as mine. Everything, everything is interesting to them because everything is new.
Uh, I mean, it's like the dried up pile of seaweed on the beach. The seaweed is different than the seaweed at home. Like things that small. Keep them endlessly entertained and I think that's something that so many parents miss. They think that you need this routine and kids, if taken out of their element, are going to struggle in some ways.
And I'm the first one to understand the importance of a nap schedule when you have little kids and all that kind of stuff. Uh, but I think actually the, the variety and the changing of environments, um, is so beneficial and kids adapt to it so much better than, um, their parents might. Absolutely.
Shannon Sneed: I think the biggest benefit I'm seeing my boys kind of develop over these two years is situational awareness.
They are very aware of where they are. They pay attention. We're on, we're on public transit. [00:22:00] All the time because we live in cities and we don't have a car. And so we become very adept at figuring out transit systems and they know which stop is, which they know where they have to connect, where they have to switch.
They know when their stop is coming up and it sounds simple, but that's a life skill that you kind of have to cultivate. You, that's, doesn't just come to you. There's a, they have a lot of friends who are kids. completely clueless about that stuff.
Geoff Roberts: The average, the average eight or 10 year old American, if you throw them into a public transit system is going to be completely lost.
Shannon Sneed: Totally lost. They're shuttled from place to place in a car most of the time. And that's just, that's part of being in America. I get that, but man, it's going to be useful for them to feel that sense of independence, agency, and. self reliance, right? To get around, to, to, to orient yourself, to move through the world [00:23:00] confidently.
That's, that's, I think they've learned a lot about that this year, both years. Yeah.
Geoff Roberts: Well, I want to, I want to go deeper on all those things and sort of the pros and cons of this. Um, but before we get there, What were your concerns as a mom? Obviously you decided to, to do this, um, so you got over them or whatever they were.
You, you rectified them. Uh, but what were the things going into this that were bigger concerns for you that maybe gave you pause for thought?
Shannon Sneed: Yeah. For an eight year old and a 10 year old, I, I think on most. I, I generally can, I can be a, well, I call myself a realist. Sometimes I'm called a pessimist, so it's not like I'm putting a rose colored glasses on.
I knew, I knew there would be challenges. I think the biggest one was worrying that they wouldn't make friends and that they'd be really lonely and that they would be fairly unhappy all year because they don't have any One of the ways we mitigated [00:24:00] that was by Enrolling them in international schools, which are a hundred percent tuned to a lot of kids coming in new from all over and know how to support them, know how to, um, help foster relationships between.
Children who may, you know, be coming in from vastly different backgrounds in terms of where they're, where they're coming from and why they're there. And that didn't, that didn't end up being a problem for either boy. They, they made friends in both places. It was hard to say goodbye. I mean, I think that was, that was another kind of lesson is that, you know, you can make friends and then you have to say goodbye when we left Croatia and then again, you know, leaving Spain.
So I think that was my big worry, but it was quickly. alleviated by just how supportive the international school environment is. I think if you put your kids in a local school, which I'd love to do someday, [00:25:00] you know, or, or in some other version of this, this adventure, we would have done that. But having the support of an international school and all of its resources and a lot of kids coming in new.
Um, made it feel a lot easier for us to, you know, put them in these new environments because we knew that they, they were ready for it, uh, the schools.
Geoff Roberts: Yeah. My, my kids are about to start kindergarten in August. Um, so we sort of feel like we have one more of these trips in us, which were. going on this upcoming year before they're older and in more serious school and have you know the same group of friends and sports and those sorts of things.
And we're thinking through what comes next. Do we do a longer trip and get a visa and put kids in an international school like you've mentioned? Do we homeschool the kids? Do we Stop going on these longer trips. Um, we haven't, haven't figured all of that out yet. [00:26:00] Um, sounds like you've had an overwhelmingly positive experience with international schools from an expense perspective.
Um, I don't need exact numbers, but are these, are these schools really expensive? Are they cheaper than you anticipated? yeah.
Shannon Sneed: So, um, Croatia. So if you're in a capital city, you will have more options because of the international community from the embassies. And often the international schools in the capital cities cater to embassy families.
So we can charge a pretty penny. Yep. Because the government pays the tuition. So, uh, the Croatia tuition was quite expensive. That was the one big splash out we did on two years was the Croatia tuition. And we only could do that because Mac had a little bit of extra cash from his sale. It was like private school in America.
[00:27:00] So it was, I don't even know what the, what the final tally was, but it was, I don't know, for two boys, uh, something like 40, 000 bucks. So it was a lot.
Geoff Roberts: Yep.
Shannon Sneed: It's a lot. And a lot of families can't do that. And I get that there's cheaper options. So we were in Valencia and Spain. Generally, the tuition is much cheaper.
It's, it's more like sending your kid to a parochial school, to a Catholic school, where they chart, you have tuition, but it's a lot more affordable. It's like a daycare. It's like a daycare expense that you would already, already have been Great. And I'm sorry, um, but if there's any questions, please, feel free to contact me.
Uh, yeah. Mike, for your time. We appreciate it. A pleasure. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Great to speak with you too. Well, Man, I bet it's great to feel like you've got what it takes to be a father and a mom and a mom and a mom. and But, uh, in Valencia, we could, we could do it, you know, at an affordable level.
Could we keep doing it [00:28:00] for years? I don't know. I mean, I think at some point you have to start to consider maybe they would be okay in a, in a local school. Um, if you wanted to get permanent residency and stay in one place, I would probably start looking to do that. I think ultimately that's probably a better choice for if you're going to be somewhere long term.
But for a year, it was great. And I will say that the school in Croatia, the American International School of Zagreb, uh, was incredible. Just absolutely the best. I mean, it's going to be hard going back to public schools after that experience because it was, they were really, it was an excellent school and they were really supportive and wonderful.
Um, and Valencia has been great too, but I would say, you know, you kind of get what you pay for a little bit with. Those, those, those, uh, American international schools in the, in the big capitals. So.
Geoff Roberts: Makes sense. Um, so you, you mentioned just this example of the kids learning to use the subway system and you mentioned earlier, you think it's important to [00:29:00] expose kids to different cultures in the sense of developing empathy.
Talk to me more about this idea of travel as education and, and how you view it. Um, I, I certainly like, I'm an extreme end of this spectrum. Like, I, I really think, and I know it's cheesy as hell, but I think people traveling more has the opportunity to like save the world. And, um, the more, the more, the more people get out there and experience different places and different cultures, the more we realize we're all the same and the better we're going to be collectively, but, um, yeah.
Not just for yourself and for Mac, but also for, for the kids. How do you think about the educational opportunity that travel provides?
Shannon Sneed: I think it's really in the everyday. Existence in a completely different, a completely different set of priorities in this, in other cultures. They, they prioritize things [00:30:00] differently, they interact differently, um, here in Spain, for example, and, and Croatia too.
The emphasis is just simply not on keeping your schedule jam packed. It's just not. People aren't doing that. We certainly didn't. So that was, that's been educational in and of itself. The fact that we have a lot of free time. Just boredom time. You can be bored on a long trip. It's okay to be bored.
Boredom It's kind of useful. It's like healthy, I think. Just lie around and do, I don't know, do whatever you need to do. Take a walk, go get a gelato. That's the kind of stuff that in American day to day life, you just don't get a lot of opportunity to do that. You can, you can, you can make that a priority for your family, but you will be going against the grain.
You, you just will. There'll be, everyone else around you will be busy, busy, busy. And it's hard. It's harder to do it there.
Geoff Roberts: Yeah.
Shannon Sneed: In terms of learning about the history of Europe [00:31:00] and, you know, what, what countries where and why things are the way they are. And I don't know how much my boys really absorbed. I think they, they learned more about the people by just being with different kids every day, kids from Ukraine.
Lots of kids from Ukraine and both Croatia and, and Valencia, lots of kids from Russia, kids from the Middle East, kids from Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, China, just that alone and seeing what they eat at the lunch table.
Geoff Roberts: Sure.
Shannon Sneed: Just that.
Geoff Roberts: Yeah.
Shannon Sneed: It doesn't have to be, wow, you know, the Sistine Chapel was painted by Michelangelo and here's why that was important.
Yeah. Those, those things come later in life, I think. And I've certainly developed, I've learned so much about the history of Europe that I really didn't know. Yeah. Particularly the Balkans. I learned a ton about the Balkans. We learned, we went to Sarajevo and walked around and saw marks on the pavement where that mortar.
exploded. [00:32:00] And that is something I think the kids will carry with them. Just sort of those visual moments. But in terms of really understanding on a deeper level, I mean, they're still kids. So, but I think, I think ultimately they're coming away. We're all coming away with an understanding that there's the world is big and beautiful and generally safe.
And full of really nice people from all walks of life. And we all have certain things that we, you know, that we have in common. And it's okay to be out in the world. And after the pandemic, Where we were told over and over again that the world's not safe to be in. At least the kids were right. It's not safe out there.
There's a big, scary virus. We all have to stay inside. We all have to wear masks. You know, we need to worry about our grandparents getting sick.
Geoff Roberts: Everybody's screaming at each other.
Shannon Sneed: Yeah. Everyone's grumpy. Everyone's suspicious. And then the political environment [00:33:00] overlaid over that to be able to walk away from all that and say, actually.
The world is really beautiful, and it's generally pretty safe. Yep. In the places we go.
Geoff Roberts: A lot of value in that.
Shannon Sneed: So, that, those are the lessons I think we'll, that we'll hopefully carry. Carry with the, you know, we'll all carry with us when we go.
Geoff Roberts: When, when do you return in like a week or two, you're coming back to the U S.
Shannon Sneed: Yeah, I know. After all this, uh, we are going to be back. Um, we're leaving in a week's time, seven days from now, and we're trying to game out, uh, a long term plan for how we're going to do this, like you. You know, trying to figure out how to integrate these two things that we value. One is that we have this amazing, wonderful community of friends and family in Portland that are Sure.
Irreplaceable.
Geoff Roberts: Yeah.
Shannon Sneed: As many friends as you can make everywhere else. And we've made lots of friends. There's that core community that you just is just sort of your family. Right. And, and as our kids [00:34:00] get into middle and high school, it feels like the time we're going to want to lean on our community. Um, just because that's a crazy time for, for raising kids.
But how do we integrate this other part of our lives? And so we're trying to figure out what that looks like. Do we spend our summers based somewhere? You know, once the kids are out of school in June, do we go somewhere until mid August? At least that's something. We don't know yet. But yeah, we've got, we've got, One week left in Valencia anyway, for now.
Geoff Roberts: So you've, you've got a week left. Uh, I imagine your heartstrings are pulled in all sorts of different directions here in terms of coming home and in terms of leaving. What do you feel like you have to sort of do in your last week to like soak up your last few moments in Valencia?
Shannon Sneed: Yeah, I know. Well, luckily we have Mac's parents visiting.
They just arrived yesterday. So this is giving us a great excuse to sort of lean into tourism and just do all the things that we've been kind of [00:35:00] putting off. Like today we toured a cathedral that's five minutes from us that we'd never been in.
Geoff Roberts: Nice.
Shannon Sneed: And it's considered the Sistine Chapel of Valencia.
It's beautiful and painted. So it was like, well, great. You got to do that. We're going to have paella. Um, we're going to go to the beach tomorrow. I, for me, if I get one more good swim in the Mediterranean tomorrow, I'm hoping tomorrow, um, I'll feel content. I will feel like, okay, I think I can say goodbye.
Geoff Roberts: I
Shannon Sneed: think I can not maybe cry my eyes out as we fly away.
Um, off the coast of Lisbon, we're connecting in Lisbon. I can just. I just know I'm going to look back and I'm going to see all those little red roofs fading as we head out over the Atlantic and I'm just going to be sad. But you know, Europe's always here. So I'm hoping that we'll somehow figure out a way to not make it feel so special, so distant, right?
And so [00:36:00] unattainable, um, moving forward.
Geoff Roberts: Give me, um, give me sort of the, the cliff notes on Valencia. What do you, what do you like about Valencia? What's great about Valencia in general? I've been all over Spain. I spent a ton of time in Spain. I have not been to Valencia. It's the, it
Shannon Sneed: is different. We've traveled.
I mean, we haven't seen all of Spain. It's a big country. Um, it's hard to fit it all in, but I will say that it's different from Barcelona and different from Madrid and, and Andalusia and everywhere else. It's very unique. Um, it's actually, I think it's more of a working class town. It's got real salt of the earth roots.
It's a, it's, um, in an agricultural area of Spain and it has An extremely beachy laid back vibe.
Geoff Roberts: Okay.
Shannon Sneed: It's not hustle bustle like Barcelona. It doesn't have that frenetic busyness. I mean, Barcelona is exciting for those very [00:37:00] reasons, but Valencia is a little more chill, um, lots of university students here, so lots of young people.
Um, but also really still kind of old world, um, old bars with like the plastic tables and chairs out front that just serve tapas, you know, and paella and by, you know, made by old men who've been doing it for, 50 years. It's got a lot of that old Spain feel, I think, um, in the nooks and crannies. And from an aesthetics point of view, it's not the prettiest city.
It's got a lot of 1970s high rise apartment buildings. It has a beautiful old center. Um, but you're not, I don't think you're here for the, the glam, the, the real pristine renaissance or Moorish. Roman architecture, you know, Morris or Roman or whatever, ancient architecture. There's some of that here, but, but Valencia has been through it.
You know, uh, they've [00:38:00] had, I think they were affected pretty significantly when in the Spanish civil war. So it's not pristine in that way, but in all those ways that I've just described, that's why I love living here because it felt a lot more. Real, uh, less glittery and perfect and sort of polished to a shine like parts of Barcelona and parts of Madrid.
Um, so I, I recommend it just because I think it's got a lot of authenticity. Still, even though it's very much on the map from a tourist standpoint.
Geoff Roberts: Let's get into the fun stuff now. Um, just a few kind of random travels things I want to ask you about. When you look back at the whole two years, um, from a culinary perspective, um, Is there food that just stands out in your mind that you'll miss and you've come to learn?
Shannon Sneed: I mean, I'm not like a huge foodie. [00:39:00] I love, I love good food. I love simple food. So, um, you know, when we lived in Zagreb, we would We went to Italy a few times cause it's really not far. It's three, three hours or so. And you go into Italy and you could have a plate of pasta on the Croatian side and it would be fine.
And then you drive over the border and you get the same plate of pasta in Italy and it's just so good, so good. So, um, Italian food, of course. Uh, I will say Bosnian food, top notch. Um, for grilled meats and just, they just do it better. They do it better than anywhere else in the Balkans. Um, they're just good at, at that, um, sort of grilled sausages and grilled vegetables and potatoes and their coffee is really good in Bosnia that the pour over, you pour it in and it's very, it's presented in this beautiful way.
Um, and then I went to London, I've been to London a couple of times now. I [00:40:00] know London. It's sort of a cliche, but their international food scene. But the international food scene in England is in London is just incredible. I was blown away. The, the, the, the street food, the coffee, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, And I think I've missed that in Spain.
Spain is actually pretty
Geoff Roberts: Spanish,
Shannon Sneed: Spanish.
Geoff Roberts: Yeah,
Shannon Sneed: there is a little bit of international cuisine here in Valencia and, you know, you get more of it in the bigger cities. But nothing like London.
Geoff Roberts: Yeah, it's not the melting pot that London is by any means. And
Shannon Sneed: so I was really, I, I, I kind of had to really enjoy myself there with the food because it was like, Oh God, I haven't had, you know, Singapore street noodles or whatever in forever.
And there's this great Singapore street food stand in central London and, you know, that kind of stuff. So, but yeah, I mean, I will say the French make the best pastries still. Um, [00:41:00] Vienna was amazing coffee. I mean, some of these cliches, you know, there are cliches for a reason. So,
Geoff Roberts: um, let's fast forward six months.
So you're, you're, you know, back to American life and in Portland and you can instantly be transported for 24 hours to one place that you visited. Where are you going and why?
Shannon Sneed: Yeah, well, um, I think it depends on the time of year. I, I, I guess I would say if it's warm weather, which I guess six months, it won't be, but let's say it was, I would go to the Dalmatian coast and go to Cortula or Brach or, One of those islands, um, off the coast of Croatia.
They're just, you won't find better swimming ever anywhere. I don't care. No, Hawaii, Greece, whatever. No, Croatia is where it's at. If you want to swim in those crystalline, beautiful waters you've ever seen. Uh, for cold, I don't know. I mean, I love [00:42:00] Sarajevo. I'd go back to Sarajevo. I would just kick it there for a week.
Like, I mean, it's. Such a fascinating city. It's, it's unlike any place in Europe. I, I couldn't, if I, if, if I had one place to tell anyone who's been all over Europe and they haven't seen that city, I would say, do whatever you have to do to get there. It's not that easy. There's not like a ton of direct flights into Syria, though, but it is worth it because it will be an incredible education that you'll never get anywhere else in any other city.
Geoff Roberts: Noted. I will, I will let you know when I make it there. I have not been Um, um, last, uh, last kind of fun bit here, something we've been doing on this podcast with all of our guests. So the, the overarching idea of this podcast is we talk to people who are entrepreneurs or who have used work in some fun way to not just build a successful business and build wealth, but build an interesting and sort of rich life.
And one of the things [00:43:00] we ask everybody is. to sort of paint us a picture of your perfect day. So for you, you've been doing this for two years. Obviously you've done it in different places. Um, you can hear just talking to you how much you've enjoyed yourself and how much this has enriched your life. What does kind of the, if you look back over the last two years, the perfect day look like, like, what did you do in that day?
What was the pace of that day? Um, what have you grown to, to love?
Shannon Sneed: I feel just like the worst, most spoiled person to say this, but I've had a lot of perfect days in two years. A lot. I am not a person who need, who particularly enjoys being busy. I, I don't like being busy. Um, I I'm in my head a lot. I, I think I like to think, and so I like to have time to do that.
So whatever's going to let me do that. So my perfect day is get up, have a coffee, have a pastry. ease into the day, hang out on the [00:44:00] couch with my boys, watch a Simpsons ep, an old Simpsons episode, um, we like to do that on Saturday mornings. Then sort of roust ourselves out of the house, maybe take a walk, maybe go down to the beach, um, have some time on the beach, swim, grab some lunch down there, something that is in open air.
I mean, living in the Mediterranean and climate, you know, it's, it's. everything I would ever have wanted it to be. Yeah, it gets hot. Absolutely. And I worry about 50 years from now how, how climate will impact tourism and, and people's ability to enjoy these places because I don't know if that's going to even be a reality for half the planet.
But living in a place like this, my perfect day would involve sitting outside and having a nice leisurely lunch. Then going home, having a siesta, a little rest time. Then it's as the afternoon gets sort of, you know, until five or [00:45:00] so, maybe we go back out, take a walk around the city a little bit, sit and have a, a nice refreshing beverage in a nice square and then get a light dinner somewhere and then call it a night.
That's, to me, the relaxing sort of pace that I enjoy, and it also, uh, speaks to my love of just sort of marinating in a city, marinating in my town, and sort of soaking it up. Not trying to cram in every tourist site, not trying to cram in every activity, not trying to line up play dates for my kids, not trying to make sure everyone has something to do at all times.
I don't care. I don't want any of that. I Unfortunately, I'm going back to my, the one culture that excels in this area. So I had to gird my loins for that. But, um, for me in Europe, in living this life, um, I will say all of what I've just said does not, has not involved a work day, so that's like a Saturday.[00:46:00]
My work days have been pretty great. I get up, I get the kids to school and then I use a coworking space. I have one here in Valencia. I go to my co working space, I do a few hours of work, and I'm done by, you know, mid afternoon. And then the boys are home and we have a midnight together. No late night, you know, email checking.
Occasionally I have evening meetings because my clients are either on the east coast or west coast. So, but that's no big deal. I can handle that.
Geoff Roberts: Yep.
Shannon Sneed: So yeah, I've had a lot of great days like that here in Europe. And I'm going to miss him.
Geoff Roberts: I'm happy to hear it. Bring, bring some of that European lifestyle back to the U S with you.
Shannon Sneed: Yeah, I hope so. I hope so. I want to influence people to do it my way.
Geoff Roberts: There you go. Fine. So final question for you. Um, you know, hopefully there's some other parents out there listening to this. And, uh, I hope this is. Encouraging them to think about whether it's [00:47:00] travel or something totally different, um, just kind of seizing the day and doing the things that they want to do.
But to those parents that might be considering living abroad for a substantial period of time as you have, like, what is your parting words to those people to, to push them over the edge?
Shannon Sneed: I mean, I have so many, I think, I think this might sound a little bit sort of woo woo, but. The thing that has always driven me is this idea that this is it.
This is the life that you get. This is, there's no practice run, there's no rehearsal, there's no do overs. This day, this year, this decade, this is all you get. What are you going to do about that? The paradigm that we have been laboring under, which is work, work, work, work, work, work, work, and hope that you are healthy and mobile at the end of that mountain that allows you to go travel off and do the things.
That [00:48:00] doesn't work for me anymore. The pandemic taught me that life is precious, short, and it's happening right under your feet.
Geoff Roberts: Right now.
Shannon Sneed: Better seize the day. You better commit, buy that plane ticket, put your, make yourself accountable, and then plan and then do it. Do not overthink it, trust that you will be okay and that your kids will thrive.
Trust that wherever you land, you will find the resources you need to be okay, whatever that is, healthcare, transportation, work, whatever. Make it your goal, commit, get accountable, put the money down for a plane ticket so you can't back out, and then all systems go. Arrange your life in a way that is going to make that plane ticket be validated, right?
That's what I would say. Don't wait. Don't, don't put it out there and say, well, I'll only retire. You might not be alive when you retire. You might have, be [00:49:00] sick. You might have a family member who's sick. There are a lot of variables that could come between you and that dream. So don't wait. Your kids are going to be fine.
In fact, they'll be better than fine. They will, their eyes will be opened in ways you cannot even imagine. So, a hundred thousand percent, if it's even a thought in your mind, a little flicker, a hope, a dream, it's doable, it's absolutely achievable, and it's waiting for you. Now is the time. Not later, now, that's what I would say.
Geoff Roberts: Good. I have, I have a little to add. I do think, um, as silly as it is, the act of actually buying the one way plane ticket to wherever you're going, um, it is just like a little, a little moment where you're like, okay, we bought the ticket. We got to go now and everything else is going to go to place.
Shannon Sneed: Right.
Like a
Geoff Roberts: good, good initial milestone. Right.
Shannon Sneed: Right. Air France is expecting us to be in seats 19 DC [00:50:00] and. E& F on this date from this airport. You don't want to let them down.
Geoff Roberts: Well, thank you. Thank you so much for coming and talking to me. This was super fun. I think people are going to get a lot out of it. And it's also awesome just to hear.
You and Max different perspectives, obviously there's a lot of overlap, but I appreciate you making the time.
Shannon Sneed: Absolutely. And thank you so much for having me. I love to talk about this stuff. So anytime. Appreciate it.
Geoff Roberts: Man, Shannon makes a compelling argument for taking action on the things that you want to do right now and not waiting much better than I ever could.
So I'm going to leave this episode with a simple prompt for you. What are you waiting for?