Life Profits

Defne-Gencler_Life-Profits_20241217_R02
Defne: [00:00:00] You got to learn how to work with people and you got to learn what good service looks like. And sometimes I even wish I had more experience, like, especially in the startup world, because we help so many startups. So I wish sometimes, oh man, would have been nice to get even more of that, like bootcamp initially, but here we are.
Geoff: This is the Life Profits Podcast, where we talk to entrepreneurs who are building companies that allow them to lead interesting and enriched lives. Today, I'm talking to Daphne Genkler, the founder of Lauraleaf, a B2B content marketing agency. After working at everything from small startups to companies like Google, Daphne figured out what sort of relationships she wanted to have with her work and started building an agency, working towards a life that gives her more autonomy and sustainability.
Daphne's in the middle of her journey in building that business, and she's going to take us through her decision making and challenges today. All right, everybody. This week, [00:01:00] I am joined by Daphne Genkler, who runs Laurel Leaf, a B2B content marketing agency. Daphne, we've never met before. It is so nice to meet you.
Defne: Nice to meet you too, Jeff. Happy to be here.
Geoff: Awesome. Well, before we get too far down the path of talking about your life and your work, I wanted to start by saying, I'm especially excited to talk to you because you are somebody that is. Has figured out what you want out of work and you're in the act of making sort of your, your work life and your life life happen right now.
Like you're doing the work to set yourself up for the life that you want with the employment situation that you want. So many of the people that I have tried to get on this podcast or other guests that we've had on this podcast are people that have sort of already made it right. They've had a whole bunch of success and they turn around and they say, don't do what I just did in order to achieve this [00:02:00] success, you should be enjoying your life more and not embracing hustle culture and wasting years of your life away.
And every time I hear that, it's like, yeah, that's a well intentioned message, but it falls on deaf ears when you're telling us not to do the things that you just did. So I think you are in a similar situation to myself. I have not made it. I'm not like a millionaire or anything like that. I am. Trying to build a good life and trying to build a business that supports it.
And I'm so excited to talk to you because it seems like you're in the act of doing just that. Is that accurate?
Defne: And it's funny because I feel just being in that process already is like making it or the start of making it for me. So it's fulfilling even at this stage. So yeah, I'm super excited to talk about it.
Yeah. Nice to meet like a fellow builder, so to speak.
Geoff: Awesome. That's a great point. So to start, just tell us who you are and what you do.
Defne: So my name is Daphne Gensler. I run Lauraleaf, as you mentioned, a B2B [00:03:00] content marketing agency. So I run a team right now. I've got a full time member of one, but next year we might be sort of expanding that.
We've got like a. satellite of contractors and freelancers that we work with, but it's very much in the infancy stages. So yeah, that's what I do for work and yeah.
Geoff: Awesome. So you sent me this great video that was sort of an introduction to yourself and it started with you have a very sort of international background.
Your family is Turkish. You grew up in Partially in the Netherlands, you moved with your dad to the U. S. for a while. Tell me about the upbringing that got you to this point.
Defne: Yeah, I think from the get go, it was like already being born to, I guess, you know, immigrant parents in the Netherlands kind of already laid the foundations for a bilingual life or an international life.
And then all of that sort of was [00:04:00] exponentially grown when my parents decided they wanted to move to California when I was about eight years old. So at the time, I only spoke Dutch and Turkish. We moved to California and then we were just thrown into a school in California, public school. And then it was like swim or sink basically.
So luckily my sister and I picked up English in, uh, you know, a couple months. And then my life since then involved moving back and forth. So it was like, not even that one move that was so defining for me, that was just the start of it. I moved back to Amsterdam and then back to the United States for college.
So it's just been a constant back and forth, but yeah, really fun. I mean, now English is my native language, so a lot of twists and turns.
Geoff: So you're, you're trilingual or do you speak even more than three languages?
Defne: I'm trilingual. I took French eight years, threw me into a room of French people, and I might [00:05:00] understand a few things.
Geoff: Fair enough. What do you, um, I'm just curious personally, what do you remember about being thrown into an English speaking school at eight years old? The reason I ask is I have twin boys that are five. And we are considering, more than considering at this point, moving to Spain specifically so they can become bilingual.
But we would be throwing two only English speaking six year olds into a completely Spanish speaking school. And as a parent, I'm, I'm excited for them to be bilingual, but I'm concerned that could be sort of a shock to the system.
Defne: Yeah, it was definitely a shock. But I think looking back now, I'm grateful for it.
It's character building, right? You get some wounds along the way, but I think in the end, like it's made me a stronger person. It's made me a better communicator, a better listener. I feel like because of that, I can succeed in other areas of life, including my business. [00:06:00] So I say it's like that short term pain for that long term gain.
Geoff: Yeah, that
Defne: makes
Geoff: sense.
Defne: I had some moments where, you know, some kids made fun of me because my outfits weren't cool and I was like, what does cool mean? I don't know even what that means as a word, and everyone's experience is different. Like, You see, you have, my experiences don't dictate what experiences your children will have, but I think overall, like, yeah, it could be really worth it in the end.
Geoff: Awesome. That's cool to hear. Look, looking at having parents that are Turkish growing up, partially Dutch, partially American, how do you see those different cultural influences in your personality, in your life? Like what have been the sort of lingering effects of each? Do you think?
Defne: Ooh, it's hard to say because I feel like.
And I get asked this a lot, right? I think I can say, Oh, you know, I'm a bit more outgoing and good at talking to, you know, strangers or people on the street because of my American [00:07:00] side, I can be more direct from the Dutch side. And then also like in Turkey, we're very hospitable and it's very much like this community mindset.
So I definitely take all those with me. But then I'm like, Oh, but that only reduces it to one thing, you know? And there's such a multitude of experiences. But I would say those are like, if we look at like main connotations or something, that's what I've been able to take with me.
Geoff: You said, because of all the moving, you felt like you were perpetually the new kid, wherever you went, um, to your previous point, like you probably developed thicker skin and that sort of thing.
But how do you think that influenced you? Otherwise? I mean, do you look back at that with any sort of regret and you, you, you wish you weren't always the new kid. Do you look back at it? Like you said previously, in a way where it's more of a positive curious.
Defne: Yeah, that's a good question. I always look back and wonder what if my life went that way or what if I took this path and there's so many [00:08:00] tasks I can think about now, which is also crazy.
I'm always going to have in the back of my mind. I think. People can identify something that they feel is lacking in their life and then try to ascribe it to oh This happened because of this and that. And let me just blame everything on X, Y, Z, but that's, I think an easy way out. We're always going to find some part of our lives that may not be perfect, but I, yeah, generally, like I, I think about all of the alternatives, uh, I think, yeah, human nature.
And I think right now, like, I just got back from the U S and saw some old friends there. My dad had relatives there, which I didn't even know about. So now I think I just see it as, Oh, I have friends all over the world. Like what a blessing.
Geoff: Absolutely. It's a good way to look at it. So this, this podcast is largely about living your life with intentionality and you sounds like you had something of a epiphany moment.
You were sitting in a [00:09:00] startup, you had been hired as a copywriter and it was three o'clock in the afternoon and you realized you had nothing to do and you said, why am I here? What is all this about? So tell me that story and tell me what that experience is. Changed for you.
Defne: Yeah. So that first job, invaluable experience.
I think that's where I learned the most about the intersection of writing and digital marketing. So super grateful for that experience. And then on the other hand, grateful for that experience of it. Teaching me what I do want my life to look like. I think I had that classic startup experience where you've got the visionary CEO who's let's write about this new feature.
And then the
Geoff: product
Defne: seems like that's not even done yet. That's going to be live in six months. And then suddenly I'd find myself having these pockets of free time. And then I just have nothing to do maybe for a few hours. And I found myself just going to the bathroom to like, Get a [00:10:00] change of scenery.
Sure. And I was, how is this my life that I'm going to the bathroom just to like have some fun or some entertainment or just like break. And I thought about all the things that we got told as children go to school and get good grades and you'll have a good job and then you'll be in control of your life.
Only to find out you're actually not control of in your life from most of the day.
Geoff: You're expected to have a button, a seat, and that's a, that's attendance. And that's what's having a job is right?
Defne: Yeah, exactly. It's like you're an adult now, but then actually it's the same. It's an extension of childhood.
Geoff: Totally. So you had that experience. You said, okay, this isn't working for me. This isn't the future. I see for myself and you strike out as a freelancer for the first time. You said you failed spectacularly and there's a funny story. Let's hear about your first foray into the freelancing world.
Defne: Oh yeah, let's go [00:11:00] for it.
So I had moved to New York city when I was 23. And I didn't really have much of a plan. So I got my first job writing for like an online content mill basically. And then they let us go because they couldn't afford to pay a living salary. I was doing odd jobs, walking dogs, like random things. And in the meantime, thought I've worked as a writer.
Let me just try freelancing. And found, I don't even remember what website it was, but it was some sort of marketplace. And through this marketplace, I connected with a creative director. at a web design agency who said they needed a copywriter for an IT company in Long, on Long Island. So I don't know what compelled me to hop into this strange person's car and drive to the office, but I did when you're young, whatever you only live once.
And we get to the office and it's legit. Thank God. Like I was safe. It wasn't a life or death [00:12:00] situation. And there's just an immediate bad vibe with the client and the clients like glaring at the CD. He's they're glaring at me. And then it turns out there was another copywriter, but they were replaced by me and the CD didn't tell them.
And then all they were questioning me, like, who is this person? And I'm just sitting there like, I don't know, yeah, like I know IT, my dad worked at Microsoft, just like completely clueless. And then we drive back and a few weeks later, the CD just like disappears. So I'm talking with the client. I'm talking to the project manager.
No, one's heard from him. I think at that point, like two months had gone by even, and he just went like, poof off the face of this earth.
Geoff: Okay.
Defne: And he had two first names. So even when I tried searching for him, I couldn't find him. [00:13:00] And it was Peter Michael. I don't think this person actually exists. And what ended up happening was.
I went to the office that they had stated on their website in New York. It was in a WeWork. I go to the office to hunt him down. This office doesn't even exist. So I think I met a con man, fugitive. I don't know.
Geoff: And that was your first freelancing client. Yeah.
Defne: Yeah. Like unreal.
Geoff: All right. So not, not surprisingly, the first foray then into freelancing doesn't go so well.
You end up getting jobs at some big, well known companies, Google, Viacom, Fortune magazine. You already said like those experiences and having that stuff on your resume. Really helped you out when you launched Laura leaf, but aside from just the sort of the brand credibility that comes from those experiences, [00:14:00] when you look at working for huge companies like that, is there anything in particular that you think benefited you aside from just the brand name or anything that you took from working at a much.
Bigger organization compared to say what you're doing today.
Defne: Yeah, definitely. I think just learning how to operate in larger teams, identify operational issues where this could be better. This is going completely wrong. And I often always found myself like identifying areas where things could be better.
But of course you're, there's so much red tape and there's all these processes that are really rigid and you have to follow them. So I think in terms of just a learning, like how to work in that environment and also meeting people and being at fortune was incredible and like being around longtime journalists who were like so small, so curious, and then in Viacom, that's very like production and process heavy.
So I think I took all of those things [00:15:00] and absorbed them all. While at the same time questioning, is this really the best way to do it? Seems like it could be better. So yeah, I guess it was pretty illuminating in all aspects.
Geoff: Awesome. And so eventually you decide that's not the world for you either. And you want to go back and you want to start your own agency.
And you said something that I, I thought showed remarkable self awareness. You said, having been at a Google and a Viacom and a fortune, I sort of knew if I failed that the problem was me. I had the experience, I had the credibility, the brand names on my resume and whatnot. In a lot of ways, To me, at least that makes the experience of striking out on your own again, that much scarier because you feel that way.
You're like, I'm, if I fail, the problem is me. So tell me about when you actually decided to start Laura Leaf. How did, like, how did you start? What was step one? And, uh, when was that?
Defne: Yeah. So [00:16:00] actually starting an agency was never my plan. I was at the end of my contract at Google. I was like a temporary kind of person there.
And I knew in the back of my mind, I was okay with that. Like I didn't want it to extend. I even had another opportunity potentially that I didn't end up going for it. Cause I just, it didn't feel right. And yeah, I think I said to myself like, all right, I've had that first freelance experience being this wide eyed, 23, 24 year old.
Now let me try this five years down the line. I would rather test the hypothesis. And truly get the answer. So for you, I struck out on my own after Google in like late 2021, early 2022, and I just wanted to be a freelancer because. I was just like, I just want to have a life that I can control my time, get to know different clients, have a bit of variety in my life while at the same [00:17:00] time learning a ton.
So that first year of freelancing was like a bootcamp into doing something for your own. At the same time, I was working with, so half my client base was agencies and half were direct clients. So I got to see both sides and what I really thought was cool about the agencies that I was working with was they were scaling while we were working together and they also had really great processes.
And seeing the way that they set up their channels on slack and organized all their communications. And it was this really service client, like servant mentality, almost. And I thought that was really admirable. So I also built good relationships with these founders. So we grew close just working together.
And then it got to a certain point where I had too much work on my plate. And I think this is probably the classic. Origin story for a lot of agencies, but it just, being friends with those owners and [00:18:00] founders, it just inspired me and I thought, what if I took this and what I'm doing now, but to a larger scale?
So 2023 was when I went live with Laura Leaf.
Geoff: Got it. Yeah. I, I think in, not an, not a surprising aspect of that story is. I think today entrepreneurship is like, and I know I, I swim in like entrepreneurial circles, but entrepreneurship is, and solopreneurship too, especially these days is so celebrated that I think there's a lot of people trying to dive into that.
Into it before they've spent any time in the workforce, frankly. And there's so much to be said for yes. Just diving in with two feet is how you learn. And you're going to accelerate your learning and all of that. But I think there's so much benefit earlier in your career, working in more professional environments, quote unquote, where you have a boss and are part of a team and see [00:19:00] what.
Execution at a successful company looks like without needing to just figure it all out on your own. I certainly had that experience and I feel like it. benefited me a lot. And I worry that too many young people are just like being programmed to skip that altogether these days.
Defne: Yeah, it is very celebrated and glorified.
And I think we need to talk more about the reality of it. And then at the same time, it's also like, it's okay. To work at a larger company. There are so many perks that come with that, so many stressors that you don't have to deal with when you're solo or running something like my first year as a founder kicked my ass.
And I questioned several times what I wanted to do or dread back of, Oh, the cushy steady paycheck. So it has, it's, you know, You know, difficult moments, which I think, yeah, it doesn't make for like a sexy LinkedIn post or something. So there's [00:20:00] that. And then, yeah, like you got to learn how to work with people and you got to learn what good service looks like.
And sometimes I even wish I had more. Like, especially in the startup world, because we help so many startups. So I wish sometimes, Oh man, would have been nice to get even more of that, like bootcamp initially, but here we are.
Geoff: So let's, let's dig into that a little bit. B2B content marketing agency tells me you, you write, you do content and you sell to businesses, but that can look very different.
So the question is, what is your. ideal client? What is your zone of genius? Are you doing long form content marketing? Are you doing very specific landing page copywriting? What are you best at?
Defne: Yeah. So what I started off with was website copy. And I just loved, I think when I, ever since I was little, I used to make my own websites and WordPress.
So I also was like a designer slash developer at [00:21:00] like a young age, not to actually call myself that because I have like maybe a 10th of the skills, but I learned how to set up my own domains and things like that. Cause I just wanted to get my voice out there when I was younger. So that just was like a natural extension of my interest as a copywriters of focusing on websites.
So the first agency I worked with was They do SEO and web. So I was there like web copywriter and I just loved how you could be fully responsible for someone's experience of going to a company's website. Like what an amazing duty, so to speak, that I could actually like create that experience for someone.
So that always drew me to websites. Starting Laurel Leaf, that's been our initial bread and butter, like short form websites, landing pages, things like that, but also like the foundational work of doing that, figuring out the positioning and messaging. And then as an extension, because Our ideal client right now is like [00:22:00] high growth startups.
They've gotten some funding and they know the importance of content. So our website work has naturally been extending into doing some more ongoing content strategy and support.
Geoff: Got it. Awesome. Tell me about the role of AI and, and your job. So you mentioned that things were kicking into gear with Laura Leaf in 2023, right as chat GPT became a thing.
I'm going to hold off on giving you. My perspective on this opinion on this question for a minute, cause I want to hear what you have to say. Um, but I'm, I'm curious, just first of all, do you use AI in the context of your job? Do you like, how did you sell against AI written content? What was that all like?
Defne: Yeah. So funny story too, because I launched my agency basically the same month that chat GPT started blowing up those first three to six months. I [00:23:00] was scared. I was like, I'm going to be fully honest. Like I was, I thought I made a huge mistake. I thought, here we go. Like people have a so called free alternative.
And now not only do I need to differentiate myself from competitors, but differentiate myself from this new technology and being first time founder and coming up against that, that really shook me. But I think what happened was I still saw there was a need. And so slowly that initial shake and confidence and fear turned into, okay, there's still clients, like people still need work.
And I've always seen ourselves as like service providers. And people like a sparring partner, people like someone they can like talk to and get input from and have someone to support and help with their decision making. And we were doing so much of that. So I think with year two, I was already like, Yeah, we're beyond just implementers at this point.
So I think making that shift for [00:24:00] how I communicate ourselves and then as for whether I use it, absolutely. I think it's an amazing tool. And I think right now it's been super helpful for us, especially if you've got a crazy tight deadline or whatever niche need someone might need. So I currently, I just see it as a way to support our operations and we're still growing and we're still seeing that need for that input, but I think also making that shift myself, if we're not just robots typing on a screen, like we're also there to provide strategic input, I think that's been a big shift.
Geoff: More strategy, less order fulfillment, if you will, but from the perspective of the actual writing process, everyone I asked this question to use this tool Chat, GPT, or whatever AI they use differently. What does it look like in your writing process? Do you use it for outlining articles? Do you use it for a first draft that you've then refined?
Like what, what has worked for you?
Defne: Yeah, [00:25:00] I think it largely depends on the project, right? Some projects it's like you use it as a first draft, but then you keep like refining as you go. Other projects. I almost use it as like an editor. So I'm like, Oh, just quickly make this sentence like a little bit choppier or something, or a little more like bold and not that it gets it all the time, but just to give it the
Geoff: directive and you see what gets spit out.
Defne: Yeah. Yeah. And it's been interesting to see the evolution of that.
Geoff: It's funny cause it's almost like it, it's a sparring partner to, for, to you, for a sense. That makes sense. I, so I, up until very recently, I've write a lot. I would say the majority of the marketing work I do is very writing focused. And I am admittedly a slow adopter of new technology.
I just always have been, I lean into what I know and what, what works. And I have a strong sense of. [00:26:00] The human element is what makes creative work good and me and all that type of stuff. I've been experimenting with it more and more recently. And I'm increasingly impressed with what you just mentioned, like giving it a part of an article and giving it a directive and seeing what it spits back and, um, its ability to act as a sparring partner in that sense.
The part that really. Worries me or where I've seen less value is most people I know, or most writers I know, at least have told me that they start with chat GPT and it provides an outline of the article for them or some structure. And I don't like that personally. And the reason that I say that is I feel like you're sort of outsourcing your thinking a little bit at an early stage.
And I almost feel like the most important part of the writing process is actually Thinking through [00:27:00] how do I structure what I'm trying to say? Like, how do I lay out this article? Like to, to me, that's one of the most fundamental parts of the writing process is like doing the thinking you need to think clearly before you can write clearly.
And I worry if we all start from a place where we're using an AI generated outline to start.
Defne: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's. And even the act of writing itself, like there's a click that happens in your brain, like we've all felt it when it happens, when you figure out, Oh, this is how I want to communicate this idea.
That's such a like profound part of being a human.
Geoff: Yeah. I worry we're outsourcing that click. Like that click's not going to happen because somebody just told us how the article should be structured ahead of time. And I know that, you know, it's not. All one way or the other, but that like that for my own experimentation, that's what I'm bumping up against.
Now I get like that [00:28:00] AI generated outline and. I started working with it or I start editing it. And then I'm like, I don't want to structure the article this way in the first place. So it's an interesting, and I can't imagine being in your place as a agency. You, if you've dealt with all this that much more than I have.
So what does success look like for Laura leaf? Um, you know, you're a few years in, you're a small team. If you can look five years in the future, 10 years in the future, what's the best case scenario? What do you want this thing to look like?
Defne: Yeah, that's a, another good question. I think where I want to be in terms of where the company's at, I want to achieve just like a healthy, predictable revenue work on things like profitability.
But other than that, I think. Having it be able to support like the life that I want to lead and just feeling free, whether that's with my time, with my money, the kind of projects that we take on the team [00:29:00] that I have, just designing it in a way where, yeah, it works for me and what I want in life. And.
Everything else is like an amazing extension, like being able to provide someone's salary, helping like my, I just got approved for a mortgage. It's a great feeling to be like, Oh, I supported someone or was, I was a small part of. that happening. So in many ways, I'm already like, yeah, really grateful for what I have now.
And I think just doing that, but continuing to build on that in a healthy, sustainable and positive way.
Geoff: Yeah, I, that, that makes total sense to me. I do think a fascinating, a fascinating topic here is as your business continues to grow, how do you Continue to have freedom or even increase your freedom because in a lot of ways, even even as the business owner, yes, you're not working for somebody else, but in your case, you're working for your [00:30:00] clients.
And my case, I'm working for people that use our software. The boss just changes. And as you have more people on your team, as you have more financial success, there's an argument that your responsibilities actually grow and you lose some of that freedom. So how we've thought about it. In the context of our business is we want to stay intentionally small.
We have said, that's a company of 10 to 20 people. We don't want to grow beyond that just because we think there's. Bureaucracy and it just becomes less fun beyond that size. So the sort of thing that I think about all the time is, first of all, we're not there yet. The team at Outsetta is six people, but if we have this kind of self imposed 20 person limit, how do we remain under that while becoming more and more profitable over time so that everybody.
Can have more freedom in their life [00:31:00] and not feel like we're chained to our desk because we're a small team trying to support a large number of customers. And it's a really hard, it's a hard problem, but it's something I think about all the time.
Defne: Yeah, definitely. I've never had the dream of, Oh, I want to scale my agency to the moon, hundred mil rev, like that was never my dream.
I don't know if that ever will be my dream, but I've definitely had moments where, you know, I'm on a like client call at 9 PM Europe time because someone's based in America and I'm like, Wait a minute, like this is a, what I signed up for, but I think about, all right, I'm on that 9 PM call, but then I have two or three hours of free time tomorrow where I can literally just do whatever I want.
So it balances itself out. I'm also learning to have stronger boundaries. So I don't work past 6 PM some nights, and that's a boundary that like. I need and I want. I was traveling in the [00:32:00] U. S. I worked mornings. Sure, maybe we could have made extra whatever M or R with those extra four hours. Then I wouldn't be living the life that I want.
To me, that's like failure. The
Geoff: whole point. Yep. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I, I've, um, had similar things just in terms of needing to time box hours that you work. I'm a person now I'm a big believer in like. Stacking all your meetings on particular days. So you have other days where you just know you don't have to deal with meetings and things like that.
All the, all those things are so important when you're looking at your business through the lens of, okay, I know what I want this life to look like. How do I actually make it happen?
Defne: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I see. A lot of the initial kind of grunt work as an investment, you know, like these calls, like these are going to come back to me, like this evening that I'm spending on this call, I don't actually even need to be on that's going to come back to me in a positive [00:33:00] way.
I might just see the effect. I might not see the effect now. And you know what? If in a few years, like I'm still, you know, there and I'm not liking it, then I'll change it.
Geoff: Yeah. Building, building anything. I, the criticism of this whole topic is life cycle businesses. And you're, you're not a serious entrepreneur and all that.
That the truth is building anything successful takes a ton of hard work. You can just go. Overboard and say, I'm not going to do anything in my life other than my entrepreneurial dreams, or you can make room for other things. And that's all we're trying to advocate for here.
Defne: Yeah. And I'm lucky to be in a spot where, you know, I can do that.
I can sit on something, a client call at 8 PM, 9 PM, like I'm pretty free. That might change one day. So kind of working with where you're at and what you've got
Geoff: for sure. Outside of Laura Leaf, what else is going on in your life? What do you do for fun? What are you passionate about at the moment?
Defne: Yeah. So I live in Amsterdam now [00:34:00] and.
It's really fun because you can just get anywhere by bike when it's like accessible city. Most days I'm just bopping around, riding my bike, seeing friends, seeing family and yeah, just taking care of like the relationships in my life so that I have, you know, that going really well for me and not identifying myself with work and I like traveling.
I think. Especially, you know, my international background is like, yeah, it naturally leads to that. So just seeing the world, exploring, reading, all of the usual things. I don't think I have any like crazy niche interests. I want to stay in shape, go to the gym.
Geoff: Where were you? You were just in the U. S. Where, uh, where did you visit?
Defne: I, oh my gosh, we did a whole tour. We started off in New York. So saw some old friends there. Went to restaurants, did the experience. I just wanted the experience of just being [00:35:00] there for a few days. My friend was like, do you want to do any sightseeing? I'm like, no, absolutely not.
Geoff: No empire state building for you.
Defne: Yeah. And not the top of the rock. So we were there for four days. Then we went down to Pennsylvania. Cause we've got family friends there, we did Thanksgiving there, just classic burbs, very suburbia vibes. So fun vibe shift. And then from Pennsylvania, we went down to Florida, we were in Miami and then Tampa.
Geoff: That's fine. All right. I'm post. Yeah. East coast. Yep. For sure. I'm going to, I'm going to leave you with a, a quote from your video and then ask you a question around it. But this stood out to me. You said my greatest vision for this agency is doing great work for great clients, but also creating a sustainable future for myself, where I have control over my time, being able to potentially dedicate more time to a family one day.[00:36:00]
So. Bringing it back full circle to the beginning of this conversation. You figured out what you wanted. You wanted that autonomy. You wanted that sustainable lifestyle. And you put a plan in motion to make that happen. Ultimately, what I want out of this podcast is more people doing that. And as I mentioned at the beginning, like there's all these people that are just hustle, hustle.
There's all these successful entrepreneurs that turn around and say, Hey, Don't do the things that I just did. How do you think we can get more young people thinking about this idea of life profitability and doing exactly what you're doing at an earlier age?
Defne: Yeah, this has always been a question that I've had in the back of my mind.
And funny enough, I heard it on another podcast, but it's this idea of if I were to get into an, and maybe this is a bit morbid, but I don't mean it in that way. But if I were to get into an accident tomorrow. You know, would I look back on my [00:37:00] life and say, you know, I was living by like principles that I believe in.
I was living a life that I believe in building something I believed in. And if that's no, then I need to make some changes. And I always want to get to the point where I can ask myself that question. And say yes as much as possible.
Geoff: Pretty good goal in my book. I love it. So thank you so much for coming on and, and chatting with me.
This was really fun. If anybody out there is, is looking for a content marketing agency, where can they find you and, and Laura Leaf?
Defne: Yeah, they can find us either on a website, laura leaf.co. Or on my LinkedIn, I'm chronically online. So
Geoff: awesome. All right, Daphne, thank you so much.
Defne: Thanks for having me.
Geoff: What I loved most about talking with Daphne is how intentional she was about building the relationship with her work that she wanted.
She didn't want to be that startup employee sitting in her office at 3 PM with nothing to do because a boss told her that she had to be there. But I [00:38:00] also loved our conversation about freedom. There are freedoms that come with a corporate job, and there are freedoms that come with working for yourself.
Which freedoms are more important to you?